How much could be the cost of a Freelancer from Romania ?

salarii

(Davask) #171

30 then 35, maybe I should wait. your rates seems variable


#172

Funny thing is that these are salaries paid by a US company.


#173

You have no idea how much people in US are making. In Sillicon Valley a person making 80k /year is considered to be poor. This is official information published by the state of California.

A Dev Manager would make 200k and a director at least 300k. Translate that into hourly rate and you will see that your statement is not true.


#174

And for IT, salaries are slowly but surely being decoupled from the local cost of living and more correlated to value produced. Thus, the same work could be done by a consultant in US, France or Romania.


(Adrian) #175

I found this: http://www.salarii-it.ro/salarii Probably not accurate, since people can enter whatever they want.
You can find wages there over 3000 euros/month, but they seem to be the exception, not the rule. You can even find wages over 4000, but those are… well, probably out of reach for most (what I’ve seen is ‘C++ architect’ which is very different than web developer).


#176

Actually after keeping a close tab on this topic, I,ve found your first post about the discussion between you and your partners regarding
Romanian freelancer’s rates more like an excuse or a smoke screen (sorry I don’t mean ti be rude). But I can understand it, you needed something to introduce yourself and your interest. We are not kids :grinning:. Dont’t get me wrong, I just don’t use to talk / write that much before getting to the point.


(Georgiana Gligor) #177


some fresh full-time employment numbers, representing net monthly pay (for reference)


(Cristi Contiu) #178

For a quick starting point regarding freelancer rates, you can do something like this.

Net monthly income to freelance/business monthly revenue:

  • 800€ net income
  • 300-600€ taxes (labour and corporate, not VAT)
  • 200-300€ business expenses (accountant, software licenses, hardware, communications)
  • 150-300 10-20% profit margin & buffer
  • TOTAL 1500 - 2000 € revenue per month

Billable hours per month:

  • 260 weekdays per year
  • -20 vacation days
  • -10 legal holidays
  • -10 sick leave, maybe a conference, other legal obligations
  • = 220 days per year / 12
  • = 18 days per month
  • x 7 billable hours per day
  • TOTAL 126 billable hours/month

HOURLY RATE: 1500 - 2000 / 126 = 12 - 16 € / hour + 19% VAT, if applicable

This is for a junior developer in a big city. You should 2x for a mid-level developer and 3x for a senior developer.

Not sure how they can have lower prices in western Europe, I have heard that argument before. The only way I can think of is bad math (inexperience), tax evasion (no business or invoices) or a very, very small tax on freelancers.


(adrian) #179

At 10E/h, any freelancer/company who pays its taxes would struggle. Invariably.
You can probably find one if you look long enough, but not one who values the work he does.
At 23 you’ll probable find a mid, or a good junior.


(Davask) #180

Think what you want, the people I work with know me better than you do and if they disagree with whatever I do/say they are welcome to speak with me.

It is easy to judge people based on our own fate or believe, more difficult to understand other points of view


(Davask) #181

About 16 euros / hour VAT included, right ?


(Davask) #182

Thanks @cristi_contiu, that s the kind of things I m looking for. Very interesting calculation method. I will have a deeper look into it when I ll be back from my trip.
Do you have any official sources for these numbers ?
Where does they come from ?


(Davask) #183

Interesting point : this is a US based company in New York.


(Cristi Contiu) #184

There is no “official” way to calculate rates, so most of the numbers come from the Romanian fiscal code, personal experience and common sense.

If you really want an “official” number, there is the average gross wage across the whole IT sector, reported by the National Statistics Institute: 6566 lei or 1400€ before tax which is 800€ after tax (net salary). However, developers and managers are usually the most well-paid in the IT sector and salaries are bigger in the largest cities, so the industry average can be considered the starting developer salary.

You can also have a look at this study by the Brainspotting IT&C recruitment agency, page 19: https://www.scribd.com/document/340683595/Brainspotting-ITC-Talent-Map-Romania-17-18 .


(Ionut Dinu) #185

Following @cristi_contiu’s formula (using cross-multiplication to simplify):
If for 800€ net monthly pay it was 12€ - 16€ / hour (not including VAT), for 1700€ you have 25€ - 34€ / hour (not including VAT).

LE: Assuming that they have an office in Romania and hire full time, they don’t provide those details.


(Cristi Contiu) #186

I would be a little wary of freelancers not dedicated full-time to their business. Moonlighting as a developer may not produce the best results, but this of course depends on the complexity & scope of the project and the expected level of quality.


(István F.) #187

A freelancer also needs to own his own gear, considering that a macbook pro/a business class dell costs 3000-4000EUR (without taking into account a decent chair) with a 10 EUR/hr rate at 8hrs/day, 40/week, 160/month and a 1600 EUR gross income which becomes 700/800 in hand the income/revenue ratio is extremely low.

A room in Cluj-Napoca costs 3-400 EUR/month with air conditioning and utilities, food is also expensive, about 10 eur/day.

With a 10 EUR rate, a freelancer in Cluj-Napoca would have about 400EUR in hand, which is ridiculously low for software development. (unless one chooses to avoid tax and risk fraud)
He also doesn’t have the possibility for cheap loans like in Western countries.

One can be easily hired as a driver/cashier/assistant/tech support in some field for much more than that and people are desperate to find workers. Also the risks are much lower.

Therefore, if someone wants to have a good worker, don’t even consider lower than 15EUR. But 20 would be about good. (on par with other jobs, not that it’s great for someone)


(Davask) #188

@cristi_contiu, thanks, I ll dive in when I m back


(Davask) #189

@isti37, is your 10 eur / day for food is a 3 meals / day or just lunch ?


(Bogdan Ciubotariu) #190

Seriously, are you trolling?